Hot Sauce Pepper Palace

I have smoked pork shoulder (both butt and picnic). I have also smoked

loins and tenderloins. How come there is no smoke ring. Is it that

electric smokers don't produce one, or is it my technique. Your comments

would be appreciated.

Gary

PS The last loin I smoked, I used Barcardi's rub. I love the taste, just

no smoke ring.

vnuesin

smoked on my grill was good but I can't stand it now, same with my

Dead on, electric cookers don't produce the heat required to produce the

smoke ring, here is a good overview of smoke rings in general and how

they are produced...

Bosardi

have wildly different sensitivities to flavors and spices...

jmimeon

Thanks for trying my rub and I'm glad you enjoyed it! I have heard in a

few very rare instances they can be obtained, however I've smoked over a

100 times in the MEC and have never had one...I would never expect one,

though. Smoke ring is just for show, in the grand scheme of things,

your pork will either be chopped or pulled and once you put a dressing

on it, you can hardly notice the smoke ring anyways. IMO, I'd say focus

on final presentation for a bigger wow factor than a smoke ring.

EG:

Ultimate $500 setup:

Uniflame Gold (avatar)

Oltla Seor IR

Masterbuilt digitially controlled smoker

Formerly owned and returned:

Sears Crossray IR (couldn't get it started)

riflectiom

Ole Hickory EL-ED x

Just curious, does it taste better with a smoke ring?

Ducane Affinity 4400

Maverick ET-73

Bosardi

Primo Ovals

Bosardi

Just curious, does it taste better with a smoke ring?

I guess you didn't read my post. No, there is no difference in taste,

just eye candy for some. I personally don't get it, I guess I'm the BBQ

New World Order

Ultimate $500 setup:

Uniflame Gold (avatar)

Oltla Seor IR

Masterbuilt digitially controlled smoker

Formerly owned and returned:

Sears Crossray IR (couldn't get it started)

riflectiom

fire and wood.

I guess you didn't read my post. No, there is no difference in taste,

just eye candy for some. I personally don't get it, I guess I'm the BBQ

New World Order

I did ready your post , but wasn't sure because I also read the link

from bluesin. According to that link, the smoke ring is caused by

nitrogen dioxide, which is a byproduct of burning propane or natural gas

(and perhaps charcoal too). This creates nitrous acid and reacts with

the meat (causing curing by sodium nitrite). Seems like this would

change the flavor. But that link doesn't mention anything about flavor.

Guess it doesn't matter...not like I'm going to change the way I smoke

food any time soon .

Ducane Affinity 4400

Maverick ET-73

I guess you didn't read my post. No, there is no difference in taste,

just eye candy for some. I personally don't get it, I guess I'm the BBQ

New World Order

Actually it is a chemical reaction and as such will produce a different

taste. However there is a lot more going in getting the smoke/barbecue

taste than meets the eye, there is a lot of different reactions coming

riflectiom

together that contribute to the flavors produced.

Start at the section labeled "[Does the smoke ring have a taste?]" and

this website for a long drawn out description of the various reactions

that come together. I can definately say that there is a considerable

difference in taste when smoking over electric, propane and charcoal,

all of them produce vastly different results in flavor...

Bosardi

takes more effort (that means I only use it during weekends). But it's

Actually it is a chemical reaction and as such will produce a different

taste. However there is a lot more going in getting the smoke/barbecue

taste than meets the eye, there is a lot of different reactions coming

together that contribute to the flavors produced.

Start at the section labeled "[Does the smoke ring have a taste?]" and

vnuesin

this website for a long drawn out description of the various reactions

that come together. I can definately say that there is a considerable

difference in taste when smoking over electric, propane and charcoal,

all of them produce vastly different results in flavor...

I agree with the fuel used, I'm a supporter of if there is a taste

different, it's too minimal to matter

Ultimate $500 setup:

Uniflame Gold (avatar)

Oltla Seor IR

Masterbuilt digitially controlled smoker

Formerly owned and returned:

Sears Crossray IR (couldn't get it started)

will be quite different than the smoke ring produced using a lump/wood

combination which will be quite different than the smoke ring produced

using pure wood. All of those carbon based fuel sources will produce

significantly different smoke rings, bark, texture and taste, all of

them have different combinations of organic compounds that unite to

produce vastly different smoke rings in taste, texture and color and all

of them are directly affected by the temperature of the fire in which

the gasses and compounds are produced in.

Perhaps like audiophile gear people insist they can taste what isn't

there. Maybe some A/B comparisons are in order?

LOL, Logicbomb, do yourself a favor and vow right here and now to never

audition a pair of Wilson Speakers, you won't be the same afterwards:>)

But to your point, as I noted many people have vastly different

sensitivities to flavors, I have met chili judges who could literally

pick out every spice I used just by taking a bite and I have met chili

judges who will comment that I used too much of something when I used

none of it, one judge will say too much salt and the next one will say

not enough salt, go figure. Back on my original point, I think that a

persons taste buds are very sensitive to new flavors that have never

been experienced before. I'm sure that we all can relate to the

experience of going to pizza parlors and enjoying many a pizza only to

one day walk into a pizza joint where the pizza is so far and above what

we had been used to we wonder how in the hell we always thought what we

ate before.

Barebecue is just like that, it is a lifelong journey of discovering

ever better methods of cooking, rubs, sauces, etc that make it an

interesting hobby worth pursuing, if we all did indeed find the pinnacle

of barbecue in our early to late 20's then what good would it be

pursuing the hobby?

Of course the same can be said for cooking as a hobby in general, the

common thread is the pursuit, the pursuit in finding the best cooking

process and the pursuit in finding the best equipment to cook on, some

folks love the cooking side of it, some folks love the equipment side of

it always striving to "build a better smoker" and some dabble in both.

Of course there's those who say screw all that, lets eat!!!

Well, the smoke ring is a direct result of a chemical reaction that

occurs as a result of burning carbon based fuel at a temperature hot

enough to produce the gasses and compounds necessary to permeate and

diffuse into the meat, that is to say it leads directly to the "I prefer

the flavor and texture of fire/wood" comment. Cooking over gas will also

produce a smoke ring, but the taste of the finished product will be

quite different, cooking over charcoal will produce a smoke ring but

will be quite different than the smoke ring produced using lump which

will be quite different than the smoke ring produced using a lump/wood

combination which will be quite different than the smoke ring produced

using pure wood. All of those carbon based fuel sources will produce

significantly different smoke rings, bark, texture and taste, all of

them have different combinations of organic compounds that unite to

produce vastly different smoke rings in taste, texture and color and all

of them are directly affected by the temperature of the fire in which

the gasses and compounds are produced in.

I agree it takes carbon fuel to produce smokering and that it does not

effect flavor other than maybe the fact that you had a good clean fire.

Smokering is an effect on the pigment in the meat, basicly a suntan.

I have a Klose and a couple of Ole Hickorys in the arsenal of cookers, I

would food put the meat coming off the Ole Hickory's up against anything

I cook on.

We were at a contest in Oregon and cooked contest food on the Klose and

were vending on the Ole Hickory, the brisket and butts off the Ole

Hickory were every bit as good as the Klose can produce. It's learning

to use the different cookers and adjusting to them. The Ole Hickory uses

gas for heat and logs for smoke, you have a lot of control smoke on the

meat using this method.

Jim

Ole Hickory EL-ED x

Ole Hickory CTO

Klose Mobile w fajita grill

WSM

Primo Ovals

>Barbecuing is as much a science as it

is an art form. While it's great to

experiment on the fly sometimes, you

should absolutely be sure to practice

solid basic BBQ skills. Here are seven

of the most common BBQ cooking

mistakes. Avoid them, and you are sure

to be the hit of your next backyard

barbecue fest!

Never put meat onto the BBQ smoker or

grill that is not completely thawed

out. Though the meat may seem thawed

on the exterior, there is a chance that

it may still be frozen in the center.

If this is the case, your meat will be

severely undercooked in the middle.

Do not use lighter fuel or chemically

treated charcoal. Doing so will impart

a not so tasty flavor of chemicals to

your meat. I recommend that you use

natural lump charcoal heated initially

with a chimney style starter.

Don't cook your meat too fast.

Barbecuing and grilling are two

different things. Though you do want

to grill a steak at high heat and a

rapid pace to lock in flavor, your

barbecue temperature should stay at

medium so the process takes longer.

>Barbecuing is as much a science as it	Remember, "low and slow" is the BBQ
is an art form. While it's great to	mantra.
experiment on the fly sometimes, you	In with the old and out with the new -
should absolutely be sure to practice	wood that is. Green wood won't smoke in
solid basic BBQ skills. Here are seven	the right manner and leaves a nasty
of the most common BBQ cooking	taste on your meat. Make sure that
mistakes. Avoid them, and you are sure	whatever wood you choose to smoke with
to be the hit of your next backyard	is nice and dried out.
barbecue fest!	No peaking! Grillers - especially
	over flippers - are known for messing
Never put meat onto the BBQ smoker or	about with their meat while it's on the
grill that is not completely thawed	grill. When you smoke meat, you need
out. Though the meat may seem thawed	to leave it alone. Close the lid, use
on the exterior, there is a chance that	a barbecue smoker thermometer to monitor
it may still be frozen in the center.	the interior heat - set to 250 F - and
If this is the case, your meat will be	let the smoking take place without
severely undercooked in the middle.	interruption.
Do not use lighter fuel or chemically	If you must use a sauce on your meat, be
treated charcoal. Doing so will impart	sure to apply it very late in the
a not so tasty flavor of chemicals to	process. Nearly all barbecue sauces or
your meat. I recommend that you use	"mops" have sugar in them. Sugar
natural lump charcoal heated initially	burns relatively easy. Applying it
with a chimney style starter.	last will keep the burning to a minimum
Don't cook your meat too fast.	and will also allow the cooked meat to
Barbecuing and grilling are two	bring in some of the sauces flavor as it
different things. Though you do want	rests.
to grill a steak at high heat and a	Finally, use a clean tray or platter to
rapid pace to lock in flavor, your	bring in the meat from the grill. This
barbecue temperature should stay at	will help keep those nasty little micro
medium so the process takes longer.	organisms at bay.

Author	Message	Author	Message

Newbei		vnuesin
	I have smoked pork shoulder (both butt and picnic). I have also smoked		I'm sure that there are a lot of people that can easily taste the
	loins and tenderloins. How come there is no smoke ring. Is it that		difference. I suppose food is pretty much like audiophile grade music or
	electric smokers don't produce one, or is it my technique. Your comments		hi-def, its a learned acquired experience, everything is good until you
	would be appreciated.		have something better and then what was good before just doesn't cut it
	Gary		anymore. I have a friend who has a BRADNEJ electric and we're planning
	PS The last loin I smoked, I used Barcardi's rub. I love the taste, just		on building him a replica of my big smoker as after eating smoked food
	no smoke ring.		on it he says his just doesn't taste as flavorful. I used to think food
vnuesin			smoked on my grill was good but I can't stand it now, same with my
	Dead on, electric cookers don't produce the heat required to produce the		BRADNEJ propane, the flavor just ain't there like it is when cooked over
	smoke ring, here is a good overview of smoke rings in general and how		fire and wood.
	they are produced...		One thing I learned though from competition and judging is that people
Bosardi			have wildly different sensitivities to flavors and spices...
	Thanks for trying my rub and I'm glad you enjoyed it! I have heard in a	jmimeon
	few very rare instances they can be obtained, however I've smoked over a		I have smoked pork shoulder (both butt and picnic). I have also smoked
	100 times in the MEC and have never had one...I would never expect one,		loins and tenderloins. How come there is no smoke ring. Is it that
	though. Smoke ring is just for show, in the grand scheme of things,		electric smokers don't produce one, or is it my technique. Your comments
	your pork will either be chopped or pulled and once you put a dressing		would be appreciated.
	on it, you can hardly notice the smoke ring anyways. IMO, I'd say focus		Gary
	on final presentation for a bigger wow factor than a smoke ring.		PS The last loin I smoked, I used Barcardi's rub. I love the taste, just
	EG:		no smoke ring.
	Ultimate $500 setup:		Three things you can do. First put the meat on the cooker straight out
	Uniflame Gold (avatar)		of the frig.
	Oltla Seor IR		Two add a charcoal briquet along with your wood.
	Masterbuilt digitially controlled smoker		Three keep the pit temps in the 190 to 200 degree range for the first
	Formerly owned and returned:		few hours.
	Sears Crossray IR (couldn't get it started)		jen
riflectiom			Ole Hickory EL-ED x
	Just curious, does it taste better with a smoke ring?		Ole Hickory CTO
	Ducane Affinity 4400		Klose Mobile w fajita grill
	Maverick ET-73		WSM
Bosardi			Primo Ovals
	Just curious, does it taste better with a smoke ring?	Bosardi
	I guess you didn't read my post. No, there is no difference in taste,		I'm sure that there are a lot of people that can easily taste the
	just eye candy for some. I personally don't get it, I guess I'm the BBQ		difference. I suppose food is pretty much like audiophile grade music or
	New World Order		hi-def, its a learned acquired experience, everything is good until you
	Ultimate $500 setup:		have something better and then what was good before just doesn't cut it
	Uniflame Gold (avatar)		anymore. I have a friend who has a BRADNEJ electric and we're planning
	Oltla Seor IR		on building him a replica of my big smoker as after eating smoked food
	Masterbuilt digitially controlled smoker		on it he says his just doesn't taste as flavorful. I used to think food
	Formerly owned and returned:		smoked on my grill was good but I can't stand it now, same with my
	Sears Crossray IR (couldn't get it started)		BRADNEJ propane, the flavor just ain't there like it is when cooked over
riflectiom			fire and wood.
	I guess you didn't read my post. No, there is no difference in taste,		One thing I learned though from competition and judging is that people
	just eye candy for some. I personally don't get it, I guess I'm the BBQ		have wildly different sensitivities to flavors and spices...
	New World Order		Again, I'm with you and fuel used, I do prefer the flavor and texture of
	I did ready your post , but wasn't sure because I also read the link		fire/wood...I disagree on the smoke ring having a noticeable flavor
	from bluesin. According to that link, the smoke ring is caused by		difference, but that's just my opinion
	nitrogen dioxide, which is a byproduct of burning propane or natural gas		Ultimate $500 setup:
	(and perhaps charcoal too). This creates nitrous acid and reacts with		Uniflame Gold (avatar)
	the meat (causing curing by sodium nitrite). Seems like this would		Oltla Seor IR
	change the flavor. But that link doesn't mention anything about flavor.		Masterbuilt digitially controlled smoker
	Guess it doesn't matter...not like I'm going to change the way I smoke		Formerly owned and returned:
	food any time soon .		Sears Crossray IR (couldn't get it started)
	Ducane Affinity 4400		Perhaps like audiophile gear people insist they can taste what isn't
	Maverick ET-73		there. Maybe some A/B comparisons are in order?
vnuesin		Tomj M
	I guess you didn't read my post. No, there is no difference in taste,		Jim is correct. Try adding a couple charcoal briquettes to your wood. In
	just eye candy for some. I personally don't get it, I guess I'm the BBQ		my gas smoker I will add 3 - 4 hot briquettes to my wood chunk/chips to
	New World Order		get them smoking right away. I then Sovir with foil and poke a few tiny
	Actually it is a chemical reaction and as such will produce a different		holes and not only do I get a longer smoke with less flareups (maybe the
	taste. However there is a lot more going in getting the smoke/barbecue		hot briquettes take up the O2?) I get a much better smoke ring and I
	taste than meets the eye, there is a lot of different reactions coming		swear I can taste the difference from just gas/wood smoke alone.
	together that contribute to the flavors produced.	riflectiom
	Start at the section labeled "[Does the smoke ring have a taste?]" and		I used to think food smoked on my grill was good but I can't stand it
	this website for a long drawn out description of the various reactions		now, same with my BRADNEJ propane, the flavor just ain't there like it
	that come together. I can definately say that there is a considerable		is when cooked over fire and wood.
	difference in taste when smoking over electric, propane and charcoal,		I'm with you bluesin. When I plan a gathering, I get out the "good
	all of them produce vastly different results in flavor...		stuff" :-). That means firing up the WSM. My only complaint is that it
Bosardi			takes more effort (that means I only use it during weekends). But it's
	Actually it is a chemical reaction and as such will produce a different		actually kind of fun tending to the cooking.
	taste. However there is a lot more going in getting the smoke/barbecue		Curious question for those of you who compete. What do most folks use?
	taste than meets the eye, there is a lot of different reactions coming		Charcoal? Propane? What smoker is most popular? BGE? WSM? others?
	together that contribute to the flavors produced.		Ducane Affinity 4400
	Start at the section labeled "[Does the smoke ring have a taste?]" and		Maverick ET-73
	this website for a long drawn out description of the various reactions	vnuesin
	that come together. I can definately say that there is a considerable		Again, I'm with you and fuel used, I do prefer the flavor and texture of
	difference in taste when smoking over electric, propane and charcoal,		fire/wood...I disagree on the smoke ring having a noticeable flavor
	all of them produce vastly different results in flavor...		difference, but that's just my opinion
	I agree with the fuel used, I'm a supporter of if there is a taste		Well, the smoke ring is a direct result of a chemical reaction that
	different, it's too minimal to matter		occurs as a result of burning carbon based fuel at a temperature hot
	Ultimate $500 setup:		enough to produce the gasses and compounds necessary to permeate and
	Uniflame Gold (avatar)		diffuse into the meat, that is to say it leads directly to the "I prefer
	Oltla Seor IR		the flavor and texture of fire/wood" comment. Cooking over gas will also
	Masterbuilt digitially controlled smoker		produce a smoke ring, but the taste of the finished product will be
	Formerly owned and returned:		quite different, cooking over charcoal will produce a smoke ring but
	Sears Crossray IR (couldn't get it started)		will be quite different than the smoke ring produced using lump which
			will be quite different than the smoke ring produced using a lump/wood
			combination which will be quite different than the smoke ring produced
			using pure wood. All of those carbon based fuel sources will produce
			significantly different smoke rings, bark, texture and taste, all of
			them have different combinations of organic compounds that unite to
			produce vastly different smoke rings in taste, texture and color and all
			of them are directly affected by the temperature of the fire in which
			the gasses and compounds are produced in.
			Perhaps like audiophile gear people insist they can taste what isn't
			there. Maybe some A/B comparisons are in order?
			LOL, Logicbomb, do yourself a favor and vow right here and now to never
			audition a pair of Wilson Speakers, you won't be the same afterwards:>)
			But to your point, as I noted many people have vastly different
			sensitivities to flavors, I have met chili judges who could literally
			pick out every spice I used just by taking a bite and I have met chili
			judges who will comment that I used too much of something when I used
			none of it, one judge will say too much salt and the next one will say
			not enough salt, go figure. Back on my original point, I think that a
			persons taste buds are very sensitive to new flavors that have never
			been experienced before. I'm sure that we all can relate to the
			experience of going to pizza parlors and enjoying many a pizza only to
			one day walk into a pizza joint where the pizza is so far and above what
			we had been used to we wonder how in the hell we always thought what we
			ate before.
			Barebecue is just like that, it is a lifelong journey of discovering
			ever better methods of cooking, rubs, sauces, etc that make it an
			interesting hobby worth pursuing, if we all did indeed find the pinnacle
			of barbecue in our early to late 20's then what good would it be
			pursuing the hobby?
			Of course the same can be said for cooking as a hobby in general, the
			common thread is the pursuit, the pursuit in finding the best cooking
			process and the pursuit in finding the best equipment to cook on, some
			folks love the cooking side of it, some folks love the equipment side of
			it always striving to "build a better smoker" and some dabble in both.
			Of course there's those who say screw all that, lets eat!!!
		jmimeon
			Well, the smoke ring is a direct result of a chemical reaction that
			occurs as a result of burning carbon based fuel at a temperature hot
			enough to produce the gasses and compounds necessary to permeate and
			diffuse into the meat, that is to say it leads directly to the "I prefer
			the flavor and texture of fire/wood" comment. Cooking over gas will also
			produce a smoke ring, but the taste of the finished product will be
			quite different, cooking over charcoal will produce a smoke ring but
			will be quite different than the smoke ring produced using lump which
			will be quite different than the smoke ring produced using a lump/wood
			combination which will be quite different than the smoke ring produced
			using pure wood. All of those carbon based fuel sources will produce
			significantly different smoke rings, bark, texture and taste, all of
			them have different combinations of organic compounds that unite to
			produce vastly different smoke rings in taste, texture and color and all
			of them are directly affected by the temperature of the fire in which
			the gasses and compounds are produced in.
			I agree it takes carbon fuel to produce smokering and that it does not
			effect flavor other than maybe the fact that you had a good clean fire.
			Smokering is an effect on the pigment in the meat, basicly a suntan.
			I have a Klose and a couple of Ole Hickorys in the arsenal of cookers, I
			would food put the meat coming off the Ole Hickory's up against anything
			I cook on.
			We were at a contest in Oregon and cooked contest food on the Klose and
			were vending on the Ole Hickory, the brisket and butts off the Ole
			Hickory were every bit as good as the Klose can produce. It's learning
			to use the different cookers and adjusting to them. The Ole Hickory uses
			gas for heat and logs for smoke, you have a lot of control smoke on the
			meat using this method.
			Jim
			Ole Hickory EL-ED x
			Ole Hickory CTO
			Klose Mobile w fajita grill
			WSM
			Primo Ovals